Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

Anybody know if you can buy a mothballed aircraft? Wether it be an old military aircraft, or even an old airliner. Just the fuslage.

Maybe it's the kid in me, but I've always wanted one. Could be a great bug out option. ...like a cylindrical trailer! HA! Air force 2?

If Im not mistaken the FAA won't allow it. Something about making sure it can't be sold to fly.??? I checked into buying an old Huey fuselage once, they where "getting rid" of some here at work. and I thought if they were going to destroy them, I could make something cool for my kids out of it. Was a no go.

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

Would be cool to buy a B-52 fuselage or two and turn it into a bar or something

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

The answer is 'Yes' and 'No'.

Government Liquidation occasionally sells aircraft. Though in almost every auction I've seen, they require 'mutiliation' before allowing it to be hauled off. Though I did see one that was listed as 'functional with necessary repairs' type of listing. I believe it was an older transport (what ever the predecessor to the C-130 was).

Mutilation generally means it can't continued to be used for it's original purpose. Say like cutting the wings and tail off. For helicopters, I believe they have to be cut in half (not sure which way though).

Now if you just HAVE to have an old commercial jet, THEY ARE AVAILABLE.

I believe their is a magazine similar to 'Auto Trader' that shows ALL aircraft for sale.

And almost ever aircraft I saw in the pix you provided are probably still in 'current inventory', though status would probably be listed as 'in storage'.

In case of a huge war, they could be 'updated and refurbed' and most could fly again.

We have NOT built a large bomber SINCE the B-52. Which is WHY you see so many of them in the pix. They sit in the desert, their fate is currently unknown. Same for what appears to be the C-130's as well. Just sitting, waiting for either recommission or destruction.

Hey, John Travolta owns an old 727. Decked out completely inside to be his flying home.

So it IS doable. All it takes is HUGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY. Maybe once GOLD SPIKES, you too can afford your own 727.

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

We have NOT built a large bomber SINCE the B-52. Which is WHY you see so many of them in the pix.

What about the 'B2'

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

And B-1b

Both of the above can be called big.

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

A group in West Tennessee did this and had the Memphis Belle for several years after the city of Memphis did not want it anymore.

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

Couple of people around here bought decomm'd commercial aircraft from "the graveyard" about 25 mi from me and use them as deer camps. No wings and stripped of avionics, but the entire fuselage remains intact.

One lady was profiled on one of the hgtv shows for her weird home.

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

http://www.military-heat.com/19/russ...eneral-public/

The Russians will sell you some.. :biggrin:

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

When I lived in Hawaii a guy took a 727 fuselage and strapped it to a barge and turned it into a houseboat. Pretty cool.

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

You can buy old civilian airplanes that are unflyable, usually they are little more than scrap price but you need to haul them off yourself. Some years back some people bought a airliner fuselage and converted it into an RV. I also remember a news article about one lady that bought an airliner fuselage and converted it into a house.

Military aircraft--some you can. You probably would not be able to ever get them flying, if that was what you were thinking. You need FAA-approved new parts to repair them, you need certified (military) mechanics to do the work, and then you need a qualified (military) pilot to fly the thing for you every flight--and where and how it can be flown is still restricted. A few people have bought old Russian planes and gotten them flying, but these are always RICH people.

In the US, you can buy older military jet parts and engines pretty easily for usually a price equal to or a bit over their scrap weight, but critical parts will be missing and no more of those parts are being made so you'll never get them working again. Any smaller jet engines (helicopter engines) that are easily rebuildable get snapped up by the hobbyists.

The military-Williams engines in the AGM-86 cruise missiles are not ever sold off. There are occasionally quality-control fail units that are assembled and sold by various places. I recall seeing prices in the $250K range a few years ago for a working unit.

The old US military planes are kept for target practice--formerly for missiles, but especially now, that the technology of unmanned aircraft is beginning to take off (so to speak).

-end-

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

This is not quite factual.

While it's true, you're unlikely to get a flyble B-52, C-141, or C-130 off the government, you could fly one of it you did.

Since these aircraft don't have civilian standard airworthiness certificates (although it could be argued you might make a C-130 into a Lockheed L-100 and get it certified), surplus planes are nearly always registered in the "experimental" or at best "restricted" categories. Neither of these necessarily require "FAA Certified" parts to keep them flying. Purely military aircraft don't use "FAA Certified" parts to begin with! They meet lots of other standards but the FAA is not usually involved unless there is a standard (i.e. civilian) airworthiness certificate involved.

There is no requirement for them to be flown by "military" pilots. There are former Military C-47's, HU-16's, C-46, C-45's, and even fighters like F-86's (and one guy with a flying Harrier) flown by non-military pilots. On the smaller end of the scale, there are TONS of surplus L-19/O-1 Birddogs being flown and maintained by people who have never been in the military. Some are registered in EXPERIMENTAL or RESTRICTED categories and some, because there is an applicable "Type Certificate Data Sheet" are registered in STANDARD or UTILITY Categories. For example, take your beautiful O-1G, add a stall warning horn and subtract a spring on the elevator linkage, get an FAA inspector (or Designate) to have a look, approve, and "POOF!" It's a Cessna 305F!

A similar but I suspect more complicated (and expensive!) process can be gone through to change a C-47 into a DC-3....

As others indicated, most of this takes a large amount of money. The larger and more complex (i.e. turbine powered), the more money it takes. Remember the common saying about boats? Just remove "water" and insert "sky" or "Parking ramp."

As for making it into a house, go for it. There are a few companies, one in Oklahoma - can't remember the airport at the moment - where the aircraft are flown in on their "retirment flight" and useful parts are removed and the rest is cut up and sold for scrap. If you wanted a 737 Fuselage to make a home or bar out of, I'm sure they'd be amenable especially if they don't have to go to the trouble of cutting it up. Transport costs extra...

Have fun!


:-)

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

I don't recall the exact details, but I remember reading one story of a (US) guy who paid to buy and then put an older Mig fighter back together. The story noted that he had to have a mechanic rated for working on that type of aircraft and a pilot rated for flying that type of aircraft to fly with him in it at all times--and the only way to get that type of a rating for either a mechanic or a pilot was to go through the air force and get it in US aircraft.

That was for a jet fighter though..... most aircraft the military has mothballed is smaller, or more-boring transport style aircraft.

Also in that story, they said that the stumbling block to repairing and flying a lot of domestic and foreign military aircraft at all was that due to FAA rules. you had to have the full copies of the repair and maintenance manuals, and that for most military aircraft these weren't available. You had to be able to prove that it was being maintained properly, and without those manuals, you cannot do that. So even if you could manage to get the plane running again, you still had to be able to get all the service materials on it, just to complete the paperwork.


-end-

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

Well, then either you're relying on a typical journalist who hasn't a clue about what they're writing about or maybe your memory isn't clear.

Since the Mig is a turbojet powered aircraft, a type rating is required to fly it. If the owner didn't have a type rating, then he would need a type rated pilot to fly with him, until he got one. Probably his insurance requirements were pretty stringent before they would allow him to fly solo. Also, he would need to find an FAA Designated examiner, with authority to award type ratings in the specific type of Mig, to give him a type rating check to get a type rating. The US Air Force is neither interested in, nor empowered to, give type ratings in civilian aircraft.

I mean think about the logic being employed here. First understand that a "type rating" is an endorsement on your license to fly a specific TYPE of aircraft. An F-16 is a type. An F-15 is another type. A Mig 21 is one type and a Mig 23 is another type. Except for maybe highly classified programs involving testing foreign aircraft, the Air Force wouldn't even fly, let alone offer training in obsolete Russian aircraft. Even if they did, they would have no need to involve the FAA to get authority to issue Type Ratings as they have their own military system for that.

As for mechanics, the US isn't as whacked out about giving "type ratings" to mechanics as other countries are and while it would be a good idea to have a guy or gal experienced in fighter jets to work on it, as long as the maintenance program requirements are met, there's no requirement to have an air force guy do it.

Yes, it is true you need maintenance manuals to maintain an aircraft but that's true for ANY aircraft. If you want to maintain a Piper Cub, you need a maintenance manual. If you want to maintain a 747, you need a maintenance manual. The former East Bloc countries got a lot of hard currency selling their old aircraft. The market would have tried up pretty quick if they couldn't provide the appropriate manuals to allow the buyers to fly them. They are available, translated into English.

Yes, the FAA doesn't make it easy, but they do allow it if you jump through all the hoops. The article you read sounded like it had the purpose discouraging people from the idea of buying old military aircraft and flying them.

It can be done, and the process is complex, but not nearly as onerous or prohibitive as the article you read seems to imply.

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

If you're interested in restoring old military aircraft to flying condition, but you're not a millionaire, you could join the Commemorative Air Force. The organization used to be called the Confederate Air Force, but corporate sponsorship for airshows was almost impossible to get with a name like that, so we changed it, though very reluctantly. (Well, corporate sponsorship and the problem with the name confusing stupid people. Once when we'd taken some of the warbirds up to an airshow in VA, we were checking into a motel, and the teenage clerks got all excited and said, "Oh! Are you those people who fly the old airplanes from the Civil War?!" The 91-year-old pilot I'd flown up there with looked at the kid a long moment and said, "Yes. Yes, we are." One of the clerks said, "That is sooo amazing! The Civil War was like a really long time ago, right? It's so cool y'all still fly those planes.") http://www.commemorativeairforce.org/

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

I didn't realize that the CAF had changed it's name. Sad, but they're were always a favorite at the air shows I've been to. I've always been amazed by the B-17 and B-24's they fly. Do they have a restored B-29 in the works?

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

BF,
The B2 bomber will hold 40,000 lbs of bombs. That's 20,000 lbs less than the B-52.


gd,
The B-1a and B-1b carried a 25,000 lb payload. That's about 35,000 lbs less than the B-52.

Also, 744 B-52's were built.

Only 21 B-2 were ever built. And only 104 B-1 (both a and b models) were ever built.

While you might consider these large aircraft, the do not come CLOSE to the B-52 in both sheer size AND capabilities to handle payloads.

Sorry folks, but as old a design as the B-52 IS, it's still the king of the US bomber force. Until something larger comes along.

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

That's interesting stuff. My Fav is the SR71

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

Yep, Fifi is in Texas getting her engines overhauled.

I love the old WWII warbirds. I used to interview WWII aviation vets for the archives of the CAF museum in Midlands, TX. It was an incredible experience, and I wish I had time to still do it. I even started grad school in military history once with the intention of studying military aviation history, but my job made it impossible to continue (and I kept getting side-tracked by an urge to write papers about WWI artillery developments...lol).

It's getting harder and harder (and more and more expensive) to keep the old birds flying, and the CAF needs all the help it can get. If anyone is interested in WWII and Korean War era military aircraft and wants to keep these planes flying, now's the time to get involved.

Keep 'em flying!

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

That's so cool, Maddie.

I sat on an airplane once next to an old Navy vet whose father had been an engineer involved in the design of the last towed 105 Howitzer in the US inventory.

He told me a story about how his father, in the process building a small model for the presentation (part of a tender, I imagine), had canibalized his mother's small suitcase. He took the hinges off the "cosmetic case" (remember those tiny suitcases that used to come with luggage sets?) and used them to attach the folding legs on the tiny model artillery piece.

They won the tender...

It's so cool talking to vets and hearing their stories.

It was particularly cool to me at the time because I was in a platoon of M48A5 Tanks, shooting the very same 105mm Vickers gun....

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

That's pretty cool, Skyvike! Back in the '70s my father-in-law was part of a small company that designed and built a long-range Howitzer. They had a contract with the US government, but the US reneged on the deal after the Howitzer was built. They were, of course, told they couldn't sell it to anyone else, but my father in-law and his partners, being men of not many business scruples, recovered their investment by selling it to the Arabs. (They actually smuggled the weapons out to Canada via a tunnel on the northern border of Vermont.) Naturally, all kinds of trouble ensued, both with the US government and the angry Israelis. My father-in-law was informed that he and the president of the company were on an Israeli hit list. My father-in-law bailed out at that point. The President of the company didn't and was shortly thereafter mysteriously murdered, believed to have been assasinated by the Israelis. Eventually, the US government decided not to prosecute. I thought the story sounded a little exaggerated when my husband first told me, but then I saw a PBS special that showed the discovered "top secret tunnel" and some abandoned weapons parts. It looked just like the pictures of the place in my husband's photos from the 70s, minus he and his young brothers playing on the weapons! I would love to ask my father-in-law about it, but I don't see him very often, and I don't really know how to broach the subject ("Hey, remember that time you almost got assassinated?").

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

That's what I'm talking about. Not even wondering if you could fly them again. I'd just like to get the fuselage of an airliner and convert it to a camp, or home.

Just a kids dream of mine.

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

Not the Bull Supergun?

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

Asked a guy here yesterday that's a member of a hunting camp over on the river with a 737 as the camphouse. He said that they bought it at scrap prices (plus moving expenses) from a company called the Memphis Group. They own the aircraft at the Greenwood, MS graveyard. I've passed the graveyard a bunch, but never stopped.

Greenwood is about 2hrs south of Memphis iffen' you ever get down this way.

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

Try this site, has some good info and photos on a person converting a B-727.

http://airplanehome.com/

http://airplanehome.com/Images/20Sep2002Images/01.jpg

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

Another good article....

http://www.airportjournals.com/Displ...?varID=0305005

some photos from the article.

http://www.airportjournals.com/Photo.../0305005_3.jpg

http://www.airportjournals.com/Photo.../0305005_9.jpg

http://www.airportjournals.com/Photo.../0305005_5.jpg

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

Here is one of an airliner turned into an RV. Street legal? Sure would be fun to drive it down the interstate and people seeing it in their rearview mirror.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1269100/L/

The photo is copyrighted so have to clic on the link.

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

Cavu's airportjournal article covers the Memphis Group and the manager of the Greenwood Graveyard, though I misspelled his name in an earlier post. (I just spelled it like it sounded.)

The $$$ for the fuselages from that one sound about like what I've heard people saying around here. Under $10K moved to site, and you've got a helluva good start for a house, camphouse, or getaway.

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

My father-in-law was working with Gerry Bull. I don't know if that was the exact weapon, but I believe it probably was. My husband was just a kid at the time, and all he knew about it was that an innovative new, "first of its kind," long-range Howitzer and a big deal at the time.

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

Wow. Cool. Can't be two different stories.

They say they could put a satellite in orbit with that thing!

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

I wonder if anyone is restoring older Cold War era planes; B-36, B-47, B-50 and B-58's? My Dad worked on the B-58 Hustler when he worked for Convair. I think the B-36 "Peacemaker" was one of the greatest bombers ever!

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

budfox,

I'm with you on that one... just for you.


http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/a...1&d=1239938353

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/a...1&d=1239938353

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/a...1&d=1239938353

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/a...1&d=1239938353

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

Cool, Wallew.

I had a job interview once with one Noel Widdifield, who flew that record breaking New York to Paris flight.

I didn't take the job but it was neat talking to the guy. Very relaxed. The interview was in a hotel room and he sat on the bed in his stocking feet while we talked.

Cool guy.

:15_1_70v:

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

If the National Air and Space Museum ever mothballs the H-1 Racer, I got dibs.
http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/1739L.jpg

I'd also be interested in any old Fokkers. http://www.old-picture.com/american-...ing-Fokker.jpg

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

So whose heard the joke that ends,

"Oh no! They weren't Fokkers. They were Messerschmitts."

:cry1:

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

I don't know about buying one but if I can get plans I can build one :biggrin: graduated from NYC Aviation High School with a FAA Airframe License.

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

I've thought about converting retired subway cars, gutting the insides, and using the structure for living quarters. I've even thought about cutting them in half lengthwise and putting a couple together in series or in a pyramid. It would look like a tricked-out chain of Airstreams. I would need a good ironworker to dislodge all of the crap underneath.

Just crazy dreams right now.

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

About 6 miles from here ,
There are some people that converted an old railroad
car into a guest house.
It was a Double deck passenger car.
Way cool........

Re: Can you buy mothballed Aircraft?
 

20 B-2's currently active (1 crashed)
67 B-1b's currently active (the first 24 B-1b's are unique, i.e. each one is different)